Fox News "Fox News Sunday with Chris Wallace" - Transcript: potential 2016 dark-horse candidate
Interview
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ROBERTS: Just a few prominent GOP leaders and likely 2016 candidates taking shots at President Obama's foreign policy this week. This latest sign that the race for the White House is already in full swing. Our next guest is considered a possible dark horse Republican presidential candidate, but will he run? Joining us now, is Indiana Governor Mike Fence. Governor, welcome back to Fox News Sunday.
MIKE PENCE (R), INDIANA GOVERNOR: Thank you, John.
ROBERTS: How can I ask you that question at least not off the top? (LAUGHTER)
ROBERTS: But the National Governors' Association meeting is taking place just down the street here in Washington.
PENCE: Right.
ROBERTS: And I know that the immigration bill that will be debated this week because there is only a few days to get it done before the Department of Homeland Security runs out of money is a big topic of conversation. Some of the governors calling for a clean bill. Dig the immigration streaking provisions out of it. What do you say?
PENCE: Well, look, the executive action the president took late last year was clearly an unconstitutional end run around the law making authority of the Congress of the United States. The president has the authority under the Constitution to determine how he will implement the law. He does not have the authority to determine whether he will implement the law. And now a district, a federal district judge has ruled to put an injunction in place.
And, you know, my bottom line is that we need to protect the homeland. We also need to protect the Constitution. And I think that the Congress using the power of the purse is altogether appropriate. And what ought to be happening today is not calls for a clean bill or otherwise. The house has acted. Now, the Senate should -- the Democrats in the Senate should lift the filibuster, should allow the bill to come to the floor and let the Congress work its will and put a bill that funds the Department of Homeland Security on the president's desk before Friday.
ROBERTS: You were telling me earlier off camera why should taxpayers fund something that a Texas judge says is not within the bounds of the president to do?
PENCE: Well, it is something I mentioned to some of my Democratic governor colleagues yesterday. I said, I said why does the administration need money for what the federal courts say they can't do? I mean this is -- this is really the injunction that is in place. The White House is going to appeal it. But this is going to be a while. And Indiana was very proud to join the suit that Texas initiated. We were vindicated when the court found that the states do have the kind of harm that justifies states having standing in this case. So, this is a matter that is going to go to the Supreme Court of the United States. Obviously, this is an important issue in the life of the nation. And it ought to be decided, debated and resolved in the Congress and not by the stroke of a president's pen.
ROBERTS: Let's move on. A lot to get to in the remaining eight minutes that we have. What is your take on how the president is handling this whole situation with ISIS, from top to bottom?
PENCE: Well, I'm very concerned, you know. Before I became governor of Indiana I've served on the foreign affairs committee for a decade. I actually travelled to Iraq a number of times. I have been to Mosul and the word this morning about plans for an offensive operation to retake Mosul are encouraging. But I still think
ROBERTS: Is it encouraging that these plans are out there, though?
PENCE: Well, it's encouraging that the goal is out there, John. But I don't think we hear a robust strategy to really drive this terrorist army not only out of Iraq, but also out of existence. And there ought to be calls for -- there ought to be calls for military investments in spending. The debate over the authorization, the little bit of which you had on the show just a few moments ago is going to be very, very important. But I think this administration has yet to articulate the kind of vision and the kind of strategy that will not only give confidence to the American people, but give confidence to our allies around the world that we are serious about driving this ISIL army out of existence.
ROBERTS: You probably heard Secretary Jeh Johnson give the rationale for the White House not labelling ISIS as Islamic extremism. What are your thoughts on that?
PENCE: Well, it's I think look, the American people are understandably frustrated with a president who lectures us on the crusades, but is unwilling to call Islamic extremism by name. Part of leadership, John, I truly believe is not only identifying the objective, but in matters of war and state craft it is about identifying the enemy. And not just with regard to what is happening in Syria and Iraq today with ISIL, but around the globe with the Islamic terrorist attacks in Europe. It is clear that we are confronting a growing threat around the world in the rise of Islamic extremism. And I think it is extremely important for the president of the United States to articulate that clearly, to marshal the resources, the energy of the United States of America and our allies to confront that.
ROBERTS: Your neighbor to the east, Governor John Kasich, told one of our colleagues, "mark my words, at some point it will require boots on the ground from the world to be able to deal with this problem." He was talking about NATO forces, talking about U.S. Forces. Do you agree? Will U.S. ground troops at some point have to be a part of this fight?
PENCE: They might have to be. The reality is that what we ought to be doing, this commander in chief ought to be articulating a robust strategy for not only retaking the territory of Iraq, but also driving this ISIL army out of existence. But, you know, I'm a little old school on this. I think the civilian command of our military ought to articulate the objective. But then you ought to listen to your commanders on the ground and at the Pentagon to say how do we do that? How do we accomplish that and take their recommendations.
ROBERTS: I want to ask you about 2016. And I get on this, stipulating the legislative session runs until April 29.
PENCE: It does.
ROBERTS: You are focused on the business of the state of Indiana. That said, do you want the job?
PENCE: You know, John, I'm blessed every day to be governor of a state that works.
ROBERTS: I should have included that.
PENCE: We have -- we have a balanced budget. We are going to pass another balanced budget this year, as well as the balanced budget amendment. In my first year in office we passed the largest state tax cut in Indiana history. We have invested in education and infrastructure and as a result our economy is growing. We have seen 100,000 private sector jobs in Indiana the last two years. Unemployment has dropped from over eight percent to 5.8 percent. Test scores are up, graduation rates are up. And I just couldn't be prouder of the progress that people of Indiana have made, and so I'm going to stay focused on the future of the people of Indiana. We'll let my future take care of itself.
ROBERTS: Those are all pretty good things to lay out there. I knew my preamble wasn't long enough.
(LAUGHTER)
ROBERTS: Those are all good things to lay out there, if you want to become a candidate, but here is the problem. With Jeb Bush pushing the schedule as he is and now Governor Walker following suit, everybody else running to wrap up donors, waiting until May, is that too long before you would potentially make an announcement? Could you catch up if you waited until May?
PENCE: Well, you know, I am just a small town guy from southern Indiana with the privilege of serving in the Congress for a dozen years and now a privilege of serving as governor for two years. But I was raised on some old fashioned values. And one of those ideas is what comes out of the old book that essentially says whoever is trustworthy in lesser things may be trusted with greater things. It really tells me in my heart that as we work on passing another budget, a balanced budget amendment, increasing investment in education innovation, expanding charter schools in what is the largest educational voucher program in America that my job, my focus needs to be on the state of Indiana, the people of Indiana and any decisions about my future.
ROBERTS: I was ..
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PENCE: Business at home.
ROBERTS: Is there any consideration here of, you know, if we wait until May it's going to be difficult to catch up?
PENCE: Well, you know, I like to say I'm an A to B, B to C, C to D guy. So, I was raised to say do what is in front of you, do it well and then we'll consider whatever opportunities.
ROBERTS: People say you could, Governor Pence, be a good bridge between establishment Republicans, Tea Party wing, social conservatives. Can you bridge all of those groups?
PENCE: Well, that would be for others to say. I've been
ROBERTS: Do you feel comfortable?
PENCE: Well, I have been very fortunate to enjoy strong support. I was there at the first major Tea Party rally out on the National Mall just several years ago. I looked at those hundreds of thousands of people who had come to battle against runaway spending in Washington, D.C. And I said Nancy Pelosi said you all are astro-turf. I said I think you look like the cavalry to me. And I love what the Tea Party has done. I am proud to be a member of the party of Ronald Reagan, and I'm proud of the business support that we have enjoyed. But
ROBERTS: Well, that should serve you in good state -- should you and may decide to do that. I want to ask you one more .
PENCE: All of those things, but we'll make decisions about our future based on where we feel called to serve.
ROBERTS: I want to ask you one more question. You know what Rudy Giuliani said that the other day that he believes the president doesn't love America, at least not in the way that Ronald Reagan did and the way that Bill Clinton did. Do you believe this president loves America?
PENCE: You know, I don't think it helps to question the president's patriotism or motives. Look, Rudy Giuliani is a great American. He saw nearly 3,000 of his own citizens die on 9/11. And he is understandably frustrated with a president who as I said before is fully willing to lecture the people of this country about the crusades, but is unwilling to call Islamic extremism for what it is. And I just truly believe that the focus of our country today needs to be on the task at hand, getting this economy moving again, restoring America's strong place in the world and I look forward to being a voice and to play some role in helping to advance that.
ROBERTS: So, you can say it is not helpful to question his patriotism. Do you question his patriotism at all?
PENCE: I just -- I just don't think it is helpful in the public debate to question motives or to question patriotism. And I truly do believe that where we ought to be focused -- and the thing about being a governor, John, is you have to focus on the task at hand every day. You know, you have asked me a lot of questions about the future. And I like to say out here in Washington, D.C. They are always asking who is next. But as a governor, I have to ask what is next and working on jobs and education reform and improving the quality of the lives of the people of our states? Washington, D.C. needs to get back to focusing on the priorities of the American people.
ROBERTS: Governor Pence, it's always great to sit down with you. Good to see you again. Enjoying our time together in Boca Raton and good to see you here in Washington.
PENCE: Thank you, John.
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